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  • I think this is a controversial point in the timeline. If you believe that the spacing of all game events is sequential, then it stands to reason that Trace prime must age like a normal person. Trace was young when he first arrived (perhaps in his 20s) and Athetos has an older appearance (grey hair, perhaps 70s to 80s). We could conclude then that only 50 years have elapsed on Sudra.

    However, I see a lot of suggestions that hundreds of years passed! How could someone live this long? The multiverse theory would suggest that the timelines of different universes don't necessarily coincide, and that traveling through the Breach means one could also travel foward or backward in time (relative to Sudra). So going "upstream to the filter" might mean skipping through the Breach several times, ultimately returning to Sudra at a later point in time than when you left.

    I think this merits a discussion. Do we have any in-game evidence directly related to this?

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    • The Rebirth Chambers. And the big tank of liquid Athetos is submerged in during the final battle.

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    • What about them? Are you suggesting that the tank of liquid can prevent aging? I think Athetos said he was "slowly dying" during his conversation with Trace.

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    • I would agree that time might flow differently in different places, so if Athetos left Sudra to "go upstream" or to the advanced civilization past Sudra, then time may have flown differently there. However, unless we believe Ophelia's story at face value (about fetching Trace from Earth), I see no reason to presume backwards timetravel to be possible.

      However, one thing that seems overlooked by many, is the possibility that the Athethos faced at the end of the game is not the original Trace / Athethos.

      Two different scenarios: Athetos could have kept cloning himself from an earlier timeprint, creating a new clone every 20 years or so while maybe working on bringing technology back to earth...

      Or: "Reviving" Athetos maybe was the Rusalki's Plan A. They release a scientist who wishes to travel away from Sudra, hope that he deactivates the Breach Attractor, so that they can flee Sudra. Only that something went wrong, the pathogen got released, the Rusalki failed "to control him" and turned on each other...

      oh speculation, how fickle art thou

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    • CrunchingPanda, that's so cool. I never thought of that. Since clones retain all the memory of the person being cloned, it would make sense for Athetos to have cloned himself in a younger imprint multiple times, with each younger body having all of his memories. The reason Athetos looked old in the tank of liquid in the final battle is possibly because he can't go to any of the Rebirth Chambers because once he stepped out of that room he was in, the Rusalki would have went after him like crazy.

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    • "However, one thing that seems overlooked by many, is the possibility that the Athethos faced at the end of the game is not the original Trace / Athethos."

      Ooooo000oOOOoooo I like this! ^^ I never thought of that. Athetos makes several clones he turns into Variants (as evidenced by the Notes), but nothing says he can't make one and not modify. 

      Taking that a step further, it's possible that another clone of Athetos (or possibly even the original) could live on after Elsenova kills the one in Mar-Uru! That could lead to Axiom Verge 2!

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    • It's a nice speculation, but it's not really hinted in the game, so for now it'll only remain a theory, I guess. But still, I think the reason why people think it took hundreds of years for Athetos to wait while the rusalki decayed is that if you remember, I think it was in one of the notes or something, where Ophelia or one of the other rusalka made a comment (in english) about queen elizabeth and stuff like that. when was that, in 1500 AD? That's 500 years from the 21st century, which implies that rusalki can go on about for a VERY long time, and that it'll probably takes them a while to decay as well.

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    • 68.50.138.244 wrote:
      The reason Athetos looked old in the tank of liquid in the final battle is possibly because he can't go to any of the Rebirth Chambers

      Oh! This is good too! He even said that they destroyed his "more portable device". So maybe he had created a mobile Rebirth Chamber??? Then after they destroyed that and he went up to the tank, that's when 50 years passed and he became old.

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    • I'm liking this. A few things...

      from Anonymous Quote (Note) : "And so the arms of the apocalypse were sealed, the masters of patterns castrated, the old machines returned to slumber." Could the "masters of patterns" be referring to the Athetos collective? Were Athetos & Co. maybe put to sleep in rebirth eggs?

      I've noticed that the english notes seem to go from Athetos calling each other A3, A9 etc. toward named variants... Indicating that Athetos clones existed and worked together before the pathogen started changing them.

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    • Copy pasting my comment from English (Note):

      "Speculation: Queen Elizabeth I lived in the same era as Shakespeare, who wrote Hamlet from which Ophelia is named. I think Ophelia is the outsider, and "native" English... and therefore intriguing to Drushka."

      In other words, I don't think that note is a reference to when any rusalka visited Earth, but rather a language reference. "English, thought long ago succumbed to evolution's merciless, twisting lever, seems to be with us once again." Prior to meeting Ophelia, the other rusalki had minimal knowledge of English. "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy sleeping dog." is also a language reference, it started seeing use as typing practise in the late 19th century.

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    • Replying to the Anonymous Note

      It must not be forgotten, the legacy of Sudra. In those far remote days, it was a time of war, of battles between angry demons and angry men, when roaring storms of fire and darkness were cast like stones between combatants.

      It was not until the sky ocean was torn asunder, the last crop turned to dust, the last brick of the last home shattered, and the last warrior and the last demon lie dying, that the people understood their sin.

      This part I think tells of the time when Athetos released the pathogen on the Sudran people and possibly waged war with them using his army of genetically modified clones and that one rogue Rusalka.

      And so the arms of the apocalypse were sealed, the masters of patterns castrated, the old machines returned to slumber.

      Arms of the apocalypse may refer to the arms of that one rogue Rusalka, when the other three rusalka defeated her, hence the "arms were sealed". Masters of patterns castrated: castrated in this case means "robbed/deprived of power." Also, Old machines refers to the technology of the sudrans that Athetos used against them, so their technology was returned to slumber, i guess signifying the stalemate that the three Rusalka put Athetos in when they defeated Athetos' forces and trapped him in the topmost tower of Sudra.

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    • So, CrunchingPanda, are you saying that Sudra is Earth IN THE FUTURE?

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    • I found a youtube video with the Athetos - Trace dialogue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0NZOraSXr8

      A part of the discussion:

      Trace: "What is this contraption you're in? Are you okay?"

      Athetos: "It protects me from the pathogen."

      Athetos: "I previously used a much more portable device ... but the rusalki destroyed it."

      Athetos: "This ungainly machine merely prolongs my demise."

      I think that "merely prolonging his demise", despite protecting him from the pathogen, indicates that he had indeed found a way to push back death by old age prior to this.

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    • 68.50.138.244 wrote:
      So, CrunchingPanda, are you saying that Sudra is Earth IN THE FUTURE?

      Perhaps... or maybe that the Sudran universe is on a different timeline and that some version of our Earth existed there in some distant past.

      This depends on the origin of the Rusalki though. They seem to be foreign to Sudra, but they also seem to have trouble traversing the breach ... Could they be from yet a third universe, one closer to our own but more advanced, with english and slavic factions creating war machines to fight?

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    • The rebirth chamber is the way to cheat death, really. Implant your current memories to a younger imprint. But Athetos cant get to any rebirth chambers because the rusalka are always keeping track of where he is. If he goes too far away from the breach area, the rusalka are really fast. they will destroy him immediately. This is why i think Athetos has to be at least hundreds of years old. Because the rusalka can live basically forever, this means it'll probably take them a LONG time before they run out of power.

      Still, I dont know why Athetos didnt go to a rebirth chamber while the rusalka were barely functioning/didnt have their bodies attached to them. Perhaps Athetos didn't know the rusalka were in such a bad shape, or maybe he thought there were other functional rusalkans other than veruska, elsenova, and ophelia waiting for him to make a wrong move.

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    • CrunchingPanda wrote:
      I think Ophelia is the outsider, and "native" English... and therefore intriguing to Drushka."

      In other words, I don't think that note is a reference to when any rusalka visited Earth, but rather a language reference.

      I read this before, but I didn't really understand it. It makes sense to me now. The Note doesn't mean the Rusalki had contact with Queen Elizabeth literally. It means they find it unusual that Ophelia speaks English! 

      From Wikipedia >>> Modern English is the form of the English language spoken since the Great Vowel Shift in England, which began in the late 15th century and was completed in roughly 1550 [...] or more specifically, are referred to as using Early Modern English or Elizabethan English.

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    • Ok I've got it! In-game evidence :D

      When you find the aborted clones, there is a cutscene where Trace reveals that he knows he is Athetos. He is then told the truth (or at least more of the truth), that they cloned him from the imprint left in the Rebirth Chamber when he first arrived on Sudra.

      When Trace asks why he doesn't remember coming to Sudra, Ophelia says very directly "We don't know. All of this happened long ago - hundreds of years ago, even. Data degredation?"

      I am liking CrunchingPanda's theory that Athetos has been leaping through time by a new clone of himself "every 20 years or so".

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    • 68.50.138.244 wrote:
      So, CrunchingPanda, are you saying that Sudra is Earth IN THE FUTURE?

      Something I just noticed (and it made me think of the above reply):

      In the Note titled "The Land of Civilized Kings", the author says "How did we learn to fear such things? Human nature."

      Wait... HUMAN nature? Why not Sudran nature? Odd. Or maybe this is meant to be a non-literal translation of an idiom. The Note was written in Sudran after all.

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    • It's hard to say from just that, but it's not actually the only indication that the Sudran might be human...

      When Trace confronts Athetos at the end, the latter says: "The loss of a single people against the whole of humanity ... how else could I choose?" This makes it clear that the Sudran people, at the very least, is just a part of their race.

      The skeleton piles and the ghouls are also very human like in appearance.

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    • CrunchingPanda wrote:
      "The loss of a single people against the whole of humanity ... how else could I choose?" This makes it clear that the Sudran people, at the very least, is just a part of their race.

      Ahh, now that's a good point. And just because something has a humanoid appearance doesn't mean it's human.

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    • Good speculations guys. Very thought-provoking. Makes me even more excited for Axiom Verge 2.

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    • CrunchingPanda wrote:

      Two different scenarios: Athetos could have kept cloning himself from an earlier timeprint, creating a new clone every 20 years or so while maybe working on bringing technology back to earth...

      Or: "Reviving" Athetos maybe was the Rusalki's Plan A. They release a scientist who wishes to travel away from Sudra, hope that he deactivates the Breach Attractor, so that they can flee Sudra. Only that something went wrong, the pathogen got released, the Rusalki failed "to control him" and turned on each other...

      I want to come back to this thought. The in-game Athetos could be a clone of the original...made hundreds, even thousands of years later.

      Recall that Trace asked the Rusalki why he doesn't remember coming to Sudra? Ophelia says "We don't know. Data degredation maybe?"

      Data degredation. Trace lost part of his memory. Because he's a clone.

      It's a nice speculation, but it's not really hinted in the game, so for now it'll only remain a theory, I guess.

      It might be! Read Letter_(Note) again. It's a purple Note, written by Athetos, right? But he doesn't seem to remember coming to Sudra!

      Data degredation. It seems Athetos also lost part of his memory. ...Because he's a clone!

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    • About Data degredation. Trace lost part of his memory. Because he's a clone.

      Prime Trace arrived to Sudra with Hammond, he was wheelchair bound and blind. Later became Athetos (but that was a moniker he got back in our current time Earth).

      If clone Trace (player) remembered how he got to Sudra, he would have to remember the accident and the moniker Athetos, rendering the game not playable cause he would recognise the name as his and thus the game plot wouldnt start.

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    • By the way, story is still has no clues about what have happened to Hammond. Other than being killed, there's a possibility that he's alive and being lost somewhere (maybe on the other side of Breach). That's odd though that rebirth chambers doesn't seem having Hammond's data at all.

      Considering it've been hundreds years since the prime Trace had entered Sudra, it's unknown what's happened to Earth through all those years and by the moment of game's events. It can be considered at some point that time flow is different for different universes. Few possible reasons why Rusalki didn't let Athetos's clone back to Earth: there was nowhere to be back, they're probably didn't knew the exact location of his homeworld in multiverse (which is not likely), they're probably considered Trace to be too dangerous to let him go (in this case it's unknown why they haven't killed him after fulfilling their goal, maybe they still have some thoughts about using him again in the nearest future).

      On a side note, I can't see the possibility of the prime Trace arrival to Sudra before its civilisation had collapsed, unless he found a way to timetravel backwards using Breach and thus took a part in those long past events (and probably causing sudrans become xenophobic in the first place).

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    • All of you are idiots. It's a fucking stasis pod, that's why hundreds if not thousands of years had passed. Nothing has ever said that stasis pods have to prevent the person inside from being able to speak or control things in thought power alone. God damn.

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    • So you revive a two year old discussion only to insult people and spew incoherent statements?

      Congratulations. You win the "14 year old let loose on the internet for the first time" award.

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    • A FANDOM user
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